Training our sensitivities: bringing the skills you are learning as a student to your students
Episode 7: Podcast with Hilary Brown and Leah Kline.
Training our sensitivities: bringing the skills you are learning as a student to your students. People are afraid of getting involved with things they don't understand. Remember: you are supposed to feel something and learning to guide awareness towards feeling something is key.
In the seventh episode of Conversations Beyond the Mat, Hilary Brown talks with Leah Kline who is an independent teacher, mentor, musician and dancer based in Amsterdam. With 30 years of teaching experience, Leah has accumulated a deep and intuitive understanding of the human–body-in-motion, the vibrational effects of sound and silence on the body and as tool for healing. She credits her combined experiences/ knowledge for her ability to explain how to touch and guide the human body into its natural energy and to recognise signs of organic movement, resistance & energetic directions.
Podcast maker Hilary Brown is the founder & creative director of Yoga Moves Training Programs in The Netherlands.
Excerpt from full transcript:
Leah
You want to know, something weird about me is like, sometimes I lose focus in a conversation because I spent so many years learning lyrics. I've got so many words and phrases in my head and people say something, and then I'm still there. But the half of my brain is like, which song was that? Oh, yeah. And then 20 minutes, and I have an old fashioned, you know, like, brain. So it's still like this little secretary going back to the file cards that's like a digital thing. So it takes a while. And then she comes back from the archives and like, halfway through conversation she's like "getting to know you..." You said getting to know me, right?
Hilary
Well, welcome, welcome Leah Kline, that was a very great introduction I actually put the record on just as you started singing. So I think it's a perfect way to start our conversation together. Welcome, Leah, and I'm Hilary, we are together to have a conversation off the mat, about the mat, half of the time the conversations are about the mat but I'm with Leah Klein, she is an extra ordinary woman, yoga teacher, singer, maybe songwriter, I'm not sure we'll have to hear about that. So songwriter and a creative soul. I do believe that she's someone close to my heart, and I've invited her here today to share some of her stories and get to know her. And what her work looks like. So Leah, welcome. Maybe a good place to start is, you know, I was you know, it's funny. When I was preparing to talk to you today. I thought about... wait a minute, she's American, no, she's Dutch, she's American, no she's Dutch. I looked at your bio before but you hadn't lived and it was like, wait a minute. She, her Dutch is so good, and I had to look it up, no, American, born in Japan, lived in America, kind of moved to the Netherlands around the same time I did. And it's like, around 2000, I was a bit earlier a, but anyway, you're you're a woman of the world, Global Citizen, yeah. Do you feel like that? Is there a Global-ness in your bones? Or in your perspective? Do you recognize that?
Leah
Well, I I've traveled a lot for various work situations that I've had, and I really like to travel. Was that because that was already happening in the womb or... but I feel more at home in Europe than I do in America. And this is why I stayed. I've been here now, since 2000. This is quite a while and I mean I moved from an area in Amsterdam that was like gentrified? So it was to like .... area and I love it so much more. Because I meeting people from all sorts of countries here instead of in the other area, which I won't say where it was, was just a very specific group of people. I like it when there's students and people of all different earnings, classes, which should be, is what Amsterdam, where I live now is all about. But I, so I really liked the cultural part. I mean, we white people are actually the minority, yeah? And that should be the feeling of it, never the other way around.
Hilary
Yeah, it's funny, I love the Netherlands in so many ways. And I remember saying when I first moved here, like this's not to do with the neighborhood, but it's more to do with, like, the way of life and the diversity. I kind of miss the messiness of America. Like the messiness like, like being able to leave your laundry out or something kind of like, like not being so organized. And I love the organization now, you know that everything works so well. But there's something about the grittiness of life. And understanding that there's struggle, and there's beauty. And sometimes, you know, you have stuff on your lawn, and it's been there too long, you know, and it's your lawn, you know, you don't have to clean it up for some...
Leah
Where did you grow up?
Hilary
California.
Leah
Southern or Northern or Bay Area?
Hilary
Bay Area.
Leah
I moved out to Southern California and then my mom moved out. So I'm really from the East Coast, Washington, DC. But when my mom moved out, so when I go back to states, I go back to California so I spent seven years there, pursuing a career as an artist.
Hilary
So I'm curious, now, we haven't really told the whole story of who you are yet. But you obviously, I mean I'm connected to you now because you're going to be teaching some yoga training through Yoga Moves. And we'll get back, we'll circle around to that in a little bit. But what I loved about our conversation so far is that I really feel like I you are a kindred soul in terms of your professionalism, the way you know, you love training people and the training part and the giving the toolbox or how you want to do the art and the science, but you're also this artist and an actress and musician. So I'm kind of curious about those two paths. And, was there a crossroads? Or tell us a little bit about you in this in these two areas.
Leah
Well the funny thing is, is that I have, I've always been wanting to express myself in an outward way. I mean, when you look at pictures for me, when I was a kid, I'm the middle child. So it's me, like hanging over my brother, my sister, and my hands up like this. So I had a lot of life energy. And my mom literally was like, go and walk around the house two times, and they'd be like, no, go outside now and walk around the house. So I got put in dance class when I was really young. And then I started, so I started to act and dance, you know, and I went to professional conservatory for dance because that was a more difficult thing to conquer on a professional level. So I was dancing and acting and singing. And, of course, at a certain point, I had quite some anxieties like how do you make it happen? There's no rulebook, you know, what, what now, and so I found a hatha yoga class. And I think I was, I followed yoga and a book my mom had, she did yoga evidently, once she was pregnant with me in Japan and so yeah, I just I pursued a career in music because I was, the dance world was pretty heavy and I didn't want to be in a rush, you know? And yoga was sort of trying to keep me grounded. I was sort of, I needed to use my body so...
Hilary
I recognize the story, funny, interesting, because I recognize, not the same. But that feeling like, you know, yoga kind of gave the ground around other pursuits, good...
Leah
The funny thing is I got a full scholarship to go to a local university based on my talent for dancing and choreography, which then is interesting, because I have a lot of information about sequencing, organic movement that has to do with all my movement background. But I left that school after a year because as a freshman, I was unusually as the first comer I was in all the theater plays, and I was in the dance company, which normally you don't get into until after you're in your second or third year. So it was like too easy for me and they were training people to be teachers, I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. I want to I want to perform, I want to be in the in the ... you know, I want to be, that's Dutch, for in the, in the world of performing, which was good. And now as I circle back, I'm a natural teacher. I'm a natural teacher, because I don't like it, when people don't under... I like to help people understand how it is. So the funny thing is, I had a full scholarship to become a teacher, but I wasn't ready. And then, you know, like, 20 years later, I become like, really? Well, 10 years later, I started teaching dance right outside of school. So I but I didn't start teaching yoga until I came here. And at a certain point, I officially stopped dancing, because I had like an injury. And I fell from a balcony and I landed on a wrought iron speared fence. But it made me see how tough and how short a dance career was anyway. And I just wanted to take my time and enjoy my life.
Hilary
I think the dance background is such a beautiful ground for yoga teachers. And it makes total sense. Because yeah, it is really hard to keep pounding the body the way you know, especially in the higher level, of course, the high levels of dance. And so...
Leah
The problem is, is that when you have dance training, you don't get to learn to respect your body. You learn to pound your body and ... so it wasn't until I went through the whole normal cycle. You know, usually dancers go for some some sort of flowy thing. So I had experienced hatha yoga and that was nice. And I tried Iyengar but it was too, gymnastic for me, not Iyengar but Kundalini yoga was too gymnastic for me, meaning like too much exercise. So I went through, you know, Ashtanga Yoga. So I became an Ashtanga yogi. And I learned the primary series, I started on the secondary series, and I got a job teaching. And they asked me if I would teach Ashtanga Yoga, and I did. And then I realized that, you know, I knew a lot about injuries. And I started to change how that went, my teaching, because I didn't want people to get injured, I realize half of these people don't know what they're doing.
Hilary
Well that's kinda funny because when you said a minute ago that dancers pound their body. The question I wanted to say is, I guess, and it's happening also in yoga.
Leah
It's coming from outside.
Hilary
Yeah, they come from wherever they're at. And they come to work out. And I think, I think that's funny. That's kind of where the pavement hits the road for us teachers is how do we get, you know, how do we give people what they want and then teach them what they need? It's kind of my you know, and then bring to them, what we you know, how to, how to listen to your body. How, you know, how do we bring them from pounding to...?
Leah
Well, I'm probably... and it wasn't until I took... I'm now officially a certified Anusara teacher, I'm a 500-hour. And it wasn't until I met Anusara where I got, like, heartfelt philosophy. And I learned to use my body as a, an artistic expression of my authentic self. Those are words they use, but I really like the symbolism and I am such a romantic ...You know, like singing jazz. I'm a jazz singer, you know, I mean, I just, I love to, because it's all romance, you know, so I'm really into symbolic things and atmosphere and so that puts me in a perfect spot for you know, trying to feed Bhakti...
Hilary
How, I'm curious, when you say that, because I love, you know, who doesn't love to be seeped in that kind of atmosphere, someone can create bhakti, and that heart feeling, and especially in a yoga class moving breathing space, I want to ask you something, though, I'm just assuming that is the case for you. How successful do you think it is? You are at translating that to someone that hasn't got that kind of juicy background? How does that, how have you seen that open up in people. Considering, you know, people that are learning to teach yoga or teaching yoga? Do you know what I mean?
Leah
When you study, when you study, even when you study the sacred scriptures, you know, you realize that, like, they also have to feed the information slowly to the students, you know. And we go first with going deeper in what we know, and that is the body. So to get people to come into the body first, and get to know this house, you know, and the outer layer. Is, is actually it's, it's the first step. Because here, there's a lot of people who are afraid of... okay, here's what I think I think a lot of people are afraid of getting too deep into something they don't understand. So if you could take this analogy across the board, if I start talking about something, it sounds interesting, but the longer I talk about it, if I don't really connect to it as a as an experience on my own, I am going to reject it. And that's logical, because we want to be a part of our path and not just have somebody tell us what to do. So to start people in movement is really good. I think what I do is I learned from ...what is the hot yoga? Bikram? I took Bikram in Los Angeles, and the thing I loved about that were these moments of just standstill for exactly one whole minute. Because what that teaches you is to separate yourself from the activity, and step into just a brief moment of feeling. And I think that for me, what I would like to do is to remind people that they're supposed to feel something. So the really tricky part is to find the right words to explain how to feel, or to guide awareness. And I think that when you start to allow people to experience a possibility inside of themselves, like, yeah, do you feel your heartbeat in your chest? Something so simple like that, you know, after you've been like exercising, you know, feel your heartbeat. So these are things that people are used to doing, you know, checking their heartbeat? And then can you feel it in your hands? Can you get still enough that you can feel it in your hands, you know, and if you don't feel it, don't freak out. But, you know, these small little things I would do at the gym, and all these other things to allow people to slowly understand that to go inside, it's not a scary thing, it's an interesting thing. I would do things like I'm going to take three ohms, you may join me if you like, you know ohm is an ohm can be like an accepted form of screaming, or it could be an acknowledgment of... it could be a release or it can be an acknowledgement of your own inner song. So you choose, right. So then I always plan the seed, yeah, because even me some days, I'm like, I'm not really ready to go too deep. I'm just gonna stay on the surface.
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Hilary
But invitation with context, I think is what I'm hearing. Because if you say if you just say ohm, well, you start chanting, and there's no context... people could...
Leah
Reach into your soul and sing the sound of creation. They're not ready for that.
Hilary
You know what I haven't, one of those things I have when I when I go of course I visit yoga classes because I have a studio so I'm so happy to do it. Because I love to take classes and I like to check my teachers a bit
Leah
Good, and I'm glad you do that, because it's really important.
Hilary
I know. But there's a little pet peeve and it's interesting, and I always think yeah, sometimes I find it very, I think it's a great conversation about because I think you, you bring this to your teaching. That's why I'm asking it...this is gonna sound, I mean, it sounds, I feel a little bit naughty even bringing it up. Because it sounds a bit judgmental, which it is, so I'll just say that right up front, which is sometimes, the end of class, you know, the last moment you know that last Namaste or that last, you know, gratitude or you're trying to invite the students into whatever gratitude moment. I would really love to see teachers deepen there. The teachers need to deepen there, I feel. Because I'm hearing this, you know, thank yourself, thank your body. Okay, I'm like, okay, I will thank myself for coming to class. Good Hilary, you came to class, thank my body, good, good body. I feel like there's so many more places we can take them in that moment that gives us space to open. And I'm just noticed, I can't tell you how many are a little bit like that's their shy place. That's their moment to shine. And it's where they're super shy.
Leah
But you're saying that it's a moment to shine but in order... it's... that's, that's your opinion is a performance thing. It's a moment to shine you want your teacher to shine but in the end...
Hilary
That's not what I meant by shine, what I meant by shine, actually, I'll just explain it. It's more like... Yeah, I can hear why you mean that, what I meant is there's like a window moment, you've just had your practice, you're coming out, you're feeling bliss, hopefully, a bit of bliss
Leah
Something that could be equated to a free high, a drug free high.
Hilary
Yeah, and it's an invitation in that moment to kind of connect obviously, to what's important. And the kind of the shininess of that the kind of the sparkle, I want to say sparkle of that moment that "oh, wow, what's what is really important to me, or what is what is my really deeper intention today". So stay connected to this inner self. That's what I met with the shiny
Leah
And I tried to translate that to closing with a high vibration, gratitude is the easiest one to reach. But so anyone who's listening to this podcast, you know, like, not only thank yourself, but just close your eyes and thank something in your life today that you could be grateful for. And when you touch that, that changes your chemistry a little bit, but you've got gratitude, joy, love, compassion. And then there's a little conversation among... I do a little Philosophy Talk that is forgiveness, really a high vibration. So forgiveness is known to be in the sacred texts, also a high vibration that after forgiving, not forgiving the person but so of those five, love and gratitude are probably the most, the least invasive, you know for nervous individuals and for teachers, you know, and I find that it's that's actually to turn to yourself and talk to not just your body, but to actually think of something you love and think of someone who's made it possible for you to be here today because of your schedule in your life. Or, you know, these, there's just that little extra, yeah, take a moment to sit, when all the generosity that is in your heart to forgive somebody or something so you can be free. You know, and that's also part of the philosophy that's not being brought into yoga classes is the the many words of God, orderly direction, you know, and so, you know, if we start to ask ourselves, like, when we're ready, yeah, when when we're ready. So we don't want to force that. But at a certain point, you and I are just older. And at a certain point, we want to really contemplate what are we doing and what is life for me. And that's actually why we want it in our yoga classes, because that's what it's all about, you know, like, what, what is there? There's a human desire and then there's a spiritual longing and like what actually, what do you think is Hillary? What do you think is some of the common spiritual longings...
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Leah is coming to Yoga Moves for a two workshops aimed at teachers: The Craft of Teaching Yoga starting from 4th November and Hands-on Assist & Adjustment Intensive from 17 March 2023.